Mar 20, 2025
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Jer贸nimo Mazarrasa is Program Director at The International Center for Ethnobotanical Education, Research, and Service (also known as ICEERS), which is a non-profit organization dedicated to transforming society鈥檚 relationship with Traditional Indigenous Medicines. He is also founder of ICEERS Academy, and creator AyaSafety, an online course for people interested in increasing the safety of ayahuasca ceremonies.
Our interview with Jer贸nimo is going to explore the vulnerability of increased suggestibility while the influence of ayahuasca (and other psychedelics), and the various harms that can can incur when one's facilitator that suggestibility is not handled with skilful care.
Throughout the interview we cover a range of different ways that facilitators can accidentally harm their clients through suggestibility; the relationship between openness and vulnerability; how "caring" and "lack of care" can exist simultaneously; how the isolation and clandestine nature the modern psychedelic underground makes cultural learning difficult; how a facilitator can learn what is harmful, with respect to suggestibility; and how participants can protect themselves from a lack of facilitator care鈥攁ll with many anecdotes and examples sewn throughout the course of the conversation.
Enjoy!
馃寑 Website and Episode Show Notes
FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW
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Episode Breakdown
- (00:00) Opening
- (01:04) Introduction
- (04:24) AyaSafety (code AYATTM for 15% off)
- (06:35) Interview begins
- (07:58) The AyaSafety Course, explained
- (18:07) Suggestibility and why is it a concern with Ayahuasca (and all psychedelics)
- (24:21) The relationship between openness and vulnerability, ideology
- (28:50) The different ways facilitators can accidentally harm their clients through suggestibility
- (30:57) The importance of knowing your limits and referring out
- (33:04) The harms of introducing spiritual/religious beliefs to clients under the effects of psychedelics
- (36:19) Sharing "visions" with clients can be a violation; tarot as an example of offering intuitions skilfully
- (42:05) Claiming external authority, ayahuasca told me that
- (47:55) Having a shamanic awakening doesn't mean you should become a shaman
- (52:20) Patreon Thanks
- (54:10) "Trauma" language can impose detrimental constraints on ayahuasca healing
- (57:38) The harms/benefits of a facilitator's unskilful/skilful use of language, and vice versa
- (1:00:38) Self-knowledge is essential for facilitators; isolation hinders self-knowledge
- (1:06:19) These risks are due to uniquely stark power imbalances
- (1:08:26) "Caring" and "lack of care" can exist simultaneously
- (1:16:37) How a facilitator learns what is harmful, with respect to suggestibility
- (1:22:42) How participants can protect themselves from a lack of facilitator care
- (1:33:24) AyaSafety course, details鈥攚ho it is for, and who it is NOT for
- (1:40:35) Outro