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Jun 2, 2023

This episode features Matthew Baggott of Tactogen Inc. and will explore entactogens, which are drugs like MDMA, 2C-B, and Methalone.

We start with setting a basic framework for what an entactogen is and a few example drugs, before exploring the complexities in their various effects, mechanisms of action, and both the legislative and technical process of the development of novel or new entactogenic drugs.


For links to Baggott's work, full show notes, and a link to watch this episode in video, head to




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Episode Breakdown

  • (0:00) Opening
  • (2:44) Guest Bio
  • (4:06) Patreon thanks | Support The Show
  • (5:42) Interview begins
  • (6:31) What is an entactogen and what does it do? | The difference between entactogens and psychedelics
  • (8:37) A short discussion about 2C-B
  • (11:47) A list of different entactogens
  • (15:30) r-MDMA vs s-MDMA
  • (19:48) Methalone, aka bk-MDMA
  • (21:52) 3-MMC and 4-MMC: patents, development, and legality
  • (23:13) Why Schedule 1 makes drug development difficult
  • (25:02) The qualities they are trying to design OUT of new entactogen drugs (pt1)
  • (26:31) “The loss of magic” with MDMA
  • (33:11) Serotin transporters and MDMA neuro-oxidization
  • (36:27) Using NAC to bring back the MDMA magic | enhanced plasticity, antioxidants, and homeostasis
  • (44:13) The qualities they are trying to design OUT of new entactogen drugs (pt2)
  • (48:52) Why we need “take home” entactogenic drugs
  • (53:20) Can a drug still be medicine if it’s fun, too?
  • (58:13) The process of justifying off-label MDMA prescriptions
  • (1:03:01) Will there be a moral backlash against the development of “good feel” drugs?
  • (1:11:10) The negative social consequences of prohibitionist law enforcement
  • (1:15:58) We can’t just give people psychedelics and expect society will get better
  • (1:18:46) Problematic moves in the psychedelic biotech industry
  • (1:25:01) Psychedelic Patent Trolling
  • (1:32:15) How Tactogen is trying to give back to psychedelic users
  • (1:44:16) Increasing access to health care, not just to psychedelic substances
  • (1:49:40) Follow-up link and contact details
  • (1:51:25) closing