Apr 17, 2026
This episode of the podcast is going to explore an intersection of psychotherapy and spirituality.
Specifically, we are going to be exploring the intersection between Internal Family Systems, spiritual healing, and the work of 16c Christian philosopher and mystic Emanuel Swedenborg. Our guests are Bob Falconer, Chelsea Odhner, and Jonathan Rose.
What You'll Learn About:
📚 Introduction to Internal Family Systems (IFS) and the
teachings of Emmanuel Swedenborg
🔗 The intersection and synthesis between these two systems of
thinking
🧠 Fundamental metaphysical concepts: the nature of the mind and the
nature of the self
✨ The relationship with the divine, including concepts of heaven,
hell, freedom, and salvation
🔓 The structure and porosity of the mind, including the mind being
populated by a multiplicity of beings, both internal and
external
🩹 Practical application: working with these beings to heal trauma
and cultivate a better life
🌀 Episode Show Notes and other Relevant Links
📚 BUY THEIR BOOK: Opening the Inner World: Spiritual Healing, Internal Family Systems, and Emanuel Swedenborg.
FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW
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Episode Breakdown
- (00:00) Opening
- (06:10) Interview Begins: introducing our guests, James' Swedenborg connection
- (08:14) Who Swedenborg was: scientist turned mystic
- (10:43) What IFS is: mind as many parts, not one
- (12:46) Chelsea bridges both worlds via healing path
- (17:10) Understanding healing as a spiritual journey
- (22:20) IFS is secretly spiritual: Self as divine link
- (25:42) Salvation etymologically means health and healing
- (26:55) Mind as multi-levelled household with a head
- (33:21) Self can never be damaged, even by deep trauma
- (34:37) Divine inflow and the protection of our freedom
- (43:15) Porosity of mind: What if the voices in your head aren’t yours?
- (49:06) Heaven hell as states chosen by what we love
- (52:25) Levels of mind correspond to levels of heaven and the different spirits we are in contact with
- (59:50) The Citadel Of The Mind model underlying mental illness
- (1:05:50) Distinguishing inner parts from dark entities
- (1:10:25) Angels respect freedom; demons seek control
- (1:19:59) Hidden demons gain power only through our fear
- (1:31:42) Psychedelics as portal to spiritual porosity
- (1:43:42) Learning to sober navigate the psychedelic nature of spiritual reality
- (1:47:55) Closing: what one thing should listeners take home?
- (1:48:55) Practice self-witnessing in difficult interactions
- (1:51:33) Act as if loved and supported by angelic forces
- (1:56:51) Follow Up Links and Goodbyes
- (1:59:27) Outro